Ian Plenderleith interview
Ian Plenderleith
In issue 1 of Eleven magazine, I interviewed author Ian Plenderleith about his book Rock 'n' Roll Soccer: The Short Life and Fast Times of the North American Soccer. Here he discusses what motivated him to write about the NASL, the past and future of soccer in North America and the enduring genius of Rodney Marsh...
Scott Skinner (editor of Eleven): Can you tell me a bit about your background, your relationship with US soccer and what drove you to write the book?
Ian Plenderleith: I’ve lived in the US for 15 years and have been writing about soccer here all that time. At one time I was writing a series of short history features for a website I was working for, and that’s when I realised the NASL had a raft of untold stories, and that the league wasn’t just about the Cosmos and Pele. It seemed to me the NASL was either forgotten, maligned or misrepresented by various factions of the world and US game.
SS: You write that the originators of the league were influenced by the 1966 World Cup and the NASL subsequently developed almost in reaction to the state of football in Britain in the 1970s. How important was the condition of British football in the 1970s to the shape of the NASL?
IP: Several former players in the book mention the severe contrast between conditions in Britain and the US, both in terms of lifestyle and the game itself. Many British players were glad to escape hooliganism and rabid crowds in favour of a more relaxed atmosphere and a better quality of life. The more flair-blessed players found when they came to the US that they were not so stymied by the negative tactics that had come to blight the European game by the 1970s.
“It seemed to me the NASL was either forgotten, maligned or misrepresented by various factions of the world and US game”
SS: How integral was (NASL Commissioner) Phil Woosnam to the successes (and failures) of the league?
IP: Simply put, the league would have died in the late 1960s if it hadn’t been for Woosnam’s industry and drive. To give you an idea of his integrity, he turned down a move to Chelsea in favour of playing for the Atlanta Chiefs at the league’s birth, even though he hadn’t yet signed a contract, but because he had given them his word. When the NASL looked like collapsing after the 1968 season, he took over as commissioner, glued it together despite there only being five teams left, then slowly rebuilt it through sheer determination and charisma.
SS: The story is one of heroes and villains, but while the league could boast stars like Pele, Cruyff and Eusebio, perhaps the true heroes were the lesser-known journeymen pros who came to the league and ended up living the dream. How important was it to capture their story?
IP: Very important, because these players and the work they put into educating the US public about the game is never credited when people talk about the league – it’s always the list of names you mention that takes priority, and that leads to a slanted discussion of the NASL. Without the hundreds of lesser players who took the risk to leave home, and who ended up staying and eventually setting up soccer schools and so forth, soccer would not have become so huge in the US over the past few decades.
“When the NASL looked like collapsing after the 1968 season, Phil Woosnam took over as commissioner, glued it together despite there only being five teams left, then slowly rebuilt it through sheer determination and charisma”
SS: You also reveal a side of the league's star players that is perhaps less known. For example, Pele the eye-gouging harasser of referees or George Best, the committed team player. The big stars brought more than just their fame to the table.
IP: Indeed. Another myth about the NASL is that the stars just came for the money, the drink and the party times. In the 1970s, the star names were doing that wherever they went, not just in the US, and although New York is maybe a special exception because of that city’s particular vibe, these players were still pros who valued winning above all else. Nobody becomes or became a professional sportsman without that drive to win games. Well, apart from Nicolas Anelka.
SS: Do you think the glitz and glamour side of the league is sometimes overplayed? It wasn't all cocaine and Studio 54.
IP: Definitely. The main offender was the movie Once in a Lifetime, which chose a simplistic narrative about the league and the Cosmos and then built a film to suit the apparent story. Several ex-Cosmos players I talked to said it was bullshit, and from the research I did, I would tend to agree. People watched that film and said, “Yeah, that was the NASL.” But really it was about one per cent of the NASL.
“Nobody becomes or became a professional sportsman without that drive to win games. Well, apart from Nicolas Anelka”
SS: The NASL seemed to do one thing that is often overlooked by decision makers in the world of football: they thought about what the fans wanted. Is there anything modern-day football can learn from the decision makers in the NASL?
IP: The post-Hillsborough fan movement, which started with fanzines and morphed into Supporters’ Trusts, has been one relentless struggle to make fans’ voices heard. In Major League Soccer (although not necessarily in other US sports), the teams go to extreme lengths to listen to what fans want. In a sport like soccer where the game is trying to establish itself, the fan gets a lot of say and that goes back to the NASL. In established sports, not so much. That’s why it costs such an astronomical sum to watch the Premier League. There’s always more room for teams and football associations to listen to fans, but at least now we’re treated a little more like human beings and a little less like cattle.
SS: The league embraced its female audience. Do you think this has contributed to the rise of women's soccer in the US?
IP: Without question – US women loved soccer from the start because it was such a straightforward, democratic game that compared favourably with the brutality of American Football and ice hockey; size-dictated games like basketball; and the old-fashioned machismo of baseball. At schools when NASL players came to give talks and demonstrations and clinics, girls just joined in, and there was no reason to stop them. They still had to struggle to make themselves accepted by the US Soccer Federation, but that came eventually. A huge proportion of NASL fans, almost half, were women.
“At schools when NASL players came to give talks and demonstrations and clinics, girls just joined in, and there was no reason to stop them”
SS: In the early 1980s the writing was on the wall for the NASL – particularly following the failed bid to host the 1986 World Cup. What do you think the future of the league would have been if the US had won the 1986 WC bid?
IP: It’s historical conjecture, of course, some think it would have been the lifeline that the league desperately needed. It’s also possible that the 1986 World Cup would have come too late to save the NASL, and too early to have been the success that USA 94 was viewed as. It’s astonishing now how myopic FIFA was at the time to the potential of the US as a soccer country and a World Cup host nation.
SS: Who do you think were the great US players of the period?
IP: The US desperately wanted its own major star in the mould of Pele. US soccer magazines and the sports media at the time were full of it – when will we get the first US world star? Like he was playing undiscovered in a suburban back garden somewhere. That question is still being asked today, though not with the same impatience. There were a lot of good US players in the NASL – Kyle Rote, Bobby Smith, Rocky Davis, plus several excellent goalkeepers like Alan Mayer and Winston DuBose, and they hung in there with the best of them. But it was ridiculous to expect a world beater to emerge in such a short space of time.
“There were a lot of good US players in the NASL – Kyle Rote, Bobby Smith, Rocky Davis, plus several excellent goalkeepers like Alan Mayer and Winston DuBose, and they hung in there with the best of them”
SS: The general consensus seems to be that the NASL had some world-class players but the coaches weren't up to scratch. Is this fair? Who do you think was the most talented coach in the league?
IP: I don’t think it’s true at all to say that the coaches weren’t up to scratch. Like the players, they came from around the world and there were several quality coaches from established football nations like Germany, Yugoslavia and England. At that time, though, it wasn’t the norm for coaches to have a multinational line-up of players speaking different languages, from vastly different football cultures, so it was a new environment for coaching, and not all of them knew how to cope with that. In addition, it was often hard for coaches who hadn’t played the game at the highest level to manage world stars who would end up calling the shots or pushing the team’s ownership for a change when they got on the coach’s wrong side. Giorgio Chinaglia at the Cosmos was famous for this. Cruyff in DC as well.
SS: What is your view of MLS? What do you think the future holds for soccer in the US?
IP: MLS is a steady, well-managed league that is gradually moving from to strength. As a spectacle, it’s not close to the level of the NASL, but that’s intentional. From the start it was intent on disassociating itself from a failed league, and operating from a much more secure basis. Soccer in the US will maintain its popularity, and likely increase it. There’s no doubt about that now. The notorious soccer-bashing journalists are either dead or dying. It’s no longer mocked as a communist or female sport. It’s no longer perceived as a threat to the other major league sports, and at some point in a couple of generations I believe it will be seen as their equal.
“MLS is a steady, well-managed league that is gradually moving from to strength. As a spectacle, it’s not close to the level of the NASL, but that’s intentional”
SS: How much credit can the NASL take from the current success and strength of the US soccer team?
IP: Without the grassroots growth that soccer experienced in the 1970s thanks to the NASL, both the game and the US national would team not be as advanced as they are today. Of more interest is the question of how far the US would be now if the NASL had survived.
SS: What was your biggest surprise while researching the book?
IP: That someone hadn’t already written it. It seems amazing to me that such an important part of both US and world soccer history has only been superficially or partially covered.
SS: If anyone summed up the rock and roll spirit of the league it was Rodney Marsh. What do you think characters like Rodney brought to the NASL?
IP: They were presented to the US public as the face of soccer – flamboyant, audacious and always capable of springing a surprise. Alan Birchenall told me that the US suited him because he always tried to play the game with a smile. Phil Woosnam understood that in the US, the idea of going to a sporting event is to be entertained, and so logically they brought in the entertainers. It’s not like at an English game, where fans seem to vacillate between bilious abuse and head-pounding despair.
SS: The NASL had many innovations which were initially ridiculed before being adopted by FIFA years down the line. Are there any innovations that haven't been adopted that you think should be?
IP: After watching many NASL games and talking to former players, I came around to the 35-yard shootout as an alternative to penalty kicks for tied games, as introduced by the NASL in the mid-1970s. The fans loved them, and a lot of the players did too. The goalkeeper has an even chance, unlike on penalty kicks, so in a way there’s not so much pressure on the outfield player when he or she misses. Sure, they’re a crapshoot, but who’s come up with a really fair idea for deciding drawn cup ties?
SS: Is there anyone you didn't get a chance to speak to that you'd love to hear their perspective on the NASL?
IP: I would really love to have talked to Johan Cruyff, but his people ignored my emails... I also wanted to talk to Peter Beardsley about what it was like going over there at the start of his career. But I can’t complain – it’s the words of the players, coaches, journalists and administrators that really made this book.
“It’s the words of the players, coaches, journalists and administrators that really made this book”
SS: In the book you list a NASL soundtrack including Chris Bell's "I am the Cosmos". If Pele was the NASL's Elvis and George Best and Rodney Marsh the Lennon and McCartney of the league who was the NASL's Chris Bell? The unsung hero cruelly overlooked by the mainstream.
IP: Great question, and a tough one to answer. I’ll go for Vancouver Whitecaps defender Bob Lenarduzzi, who played for 11 seasons for one club. He holds the NASL record for most appearances, scored a few dozen goals into the bargain, and played 47 times for Canada.
SS: Who is your favourite NASL team (and player) and why?
IP: In the course of writing the book, the Minnesota Kicks became my favourite team, because their swift, glorious rise and equally rapid fall typified the spirit of the league. Not just the way they soared to crowds of 40,000 plus in no time, but also the party culture they nurtured in the parking lots before and after the game were a unique phenomenon in the NASL that other teams tried to ape, with varying measures of success. My favourite players from the NASL are the same as my favourite players were in the 1970s as a boy – George Best and Rodney Marsh.
SS: What is your favourite NASL moment?
IP: No question, Rodney Marsh going down on his knees with the ball in front of him and taunting Pele and the Cosmos when the Tampa Bay Rowdies hammered them 5-1 in 1976.
This interview first appeared in issue 1 of Eleven magazine